Some of the most lovable characters in TV history started out decidedly less wholesome.

Take for example Ben Wyatt, the calzone-loving state auditor and former teen mayor played by Adam Scott on Parks and Recreation. As the actor recently reminisced on costar Rob Lowe‘s Literally! podcast, his character came off like kind of a jerk when he arrived in season 2 of the NBC sitcom.

“They really started finding it on the road, they were kind of figuring it out as they went,” Scott said of the Parks and Rec creative team. “Then even when we came in, if you watch those early episodes —”

“And you were a huge dick!” Lowe cut in.

“I was a total dick,” Scott rejoined, not missing a beat. “But also just the kind of speed, by the time we finished, the show had sped up so much. It was like six jokes a page. It was just going… It’s just interesting to see how a show kind of evolves as it goes.”

While it’s impossible to imagine Parks and Rec without Scott’s sweetly nerdy love interest for Leslie Knope (Amy Poehler), not to mention Lowe’s terminally optimistic Chris Traeger, they didn’t appear until the penultimate episode of the second season. Chris’ manic cheerfulness never ebbed much across the following six seasons, but Ben went through quite a transformation from “total dick” to proper romantic lead.

“We didn’t know what the f— we were doing. I didn’t, maybe you did,” Lowe said to Scott.

“I didn’t,” Scott agreed. “I remember after the first take, [producer and director] Dean Holland coming up and being like, ‘So it is a mock documentary. That’s what we’re doing. But you don’t need to keep looking at the camera.'”

Despite Scott’s initial confusion, Lowe remarked that he eventually became the show’s “master of the look-to-camera,” which Scott denied, though he told Lowe it was “very nice of you to say.”

Originally broadcast from 2009 to 2015, Parks follows the travails of a humble group of public servants working at the Pawnee, Ind., Parks and Recreation Department. In addition to the mockumentary camera style, Parks borrowed many of its narrative and aesthetic qualities from The Office, which was developed by the same team of Greg Daniels and Michael Schur.

Parks star Jim O’Heir has even discussed how the show was actually an Office spinoff in its early development stages, tentatively titled The Stamford Branch. Rashida Jones, who played Ann Perkins on all seven season of Parks and Rec, also appeared on The Office as an employee of the paper company’s branch in Stamford, Conn.

Though Parks never became a ratings juggernaut like The Office, it built a substantial fan base that still dutifully rewatches the series and cheers for cast reunions.

At this year’s Oscars, announcer Nick Offerman made a joking allusion to his familiarity with Parks costar Poehler by feigning total unfamiliarity. “Amy Poe-ell-er?” he pretended to struggle while announcing her as a presenter for the Best Screenplay categories.

Watch Scott and Lowe’s full conversation above.